Monday, November 24, 2008

Hey Robert, look closely, be honest.


Beer, MJ, clubbing, and kissing guys. You'd have never believed it if someone had said that you'd be doing these things again. It's not you, it never was, and was never supposed to be.

In the past month, I've made the first two habit, I seek them out. I'm not me anymore... Even now, typing this, I just want to go smoke some weed, have a couple beers, and kiss a guy. Not just anybody, but someone close. That's the reason for the long silence - things haven't been well. I can't stand keeping it in/secret anymore. I'm terrified to publish this post because I don't want to hurt Hillary. I'm not sure that I'll hit the "Publish Post" button. But, I've got to be honest. I'm not me anymore. I'm someone different. She's dating other guys and I'm so happy for her. In the most sincere and utterly honest way, I hope that she finds someone that loves her like I do, but that can offer her everything. This blog has to be the place where I'm honest and real. It was created to be the place that I can write whatever because it's me that I'm writing to. For the first couple of months, I didn't share the address because I didn't intend for it to be public. I started it so I could get it all out. So, this is it, this is what's real. I am sorry for it.

I'm sorry that it all sounds so dramatic. I know that being mormon and attracted to guys is not a death or damnation sentence. I know that we make our lives and are held to the consequences of our choices. It's simple as that. My challenges aren't beyond those of many of my friends that still choose the right. Gay LDS guys can be totally happy, get married to a wonderful wife, and have a great family. It happens! What hurts is that I know I'm not who I've become. I've lost the true me. I don't think much anymore. And here I am, I'm sorry for who I've become.

I know it can change...that I can change it. Somehow, it will...I will. I quit smoking and drinking for a month or so...but I'm drinking again and now I've smoked MJ a few times as well. What have I done? I don't see clearly because I refuse to look closely at life. I don't believe that things will drastically change as a result of this post. No, not drastic change, it'll be slow and eventual. I'll be a temple goer again someday, I'll be helping families again, and I'll be me again. I hope sooner than later, but that has yet to be seen. Who am I? I am RedSageWarrior and BrightMedicineHorse, I'm Elder Stahl and Uncle Bobby, I'm Boy Wonder and Obie-One. That's who I am. It's these scales and tar that I've got to shed. They're abrasive, they're heavy. It'll change - I'll change. Watch, but just be patient Robert, be patient.
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P.S. I am so incredibly grateful for the friends I've made and the people I've met through blogging. Wow, we're fortunate to have each other, especially because of the diversity of our experiences and understandings. I'm grateful for that every day. Also, I didn't mean to sound like I'm severely depressed or struggling. I really only get sad when I think about what I'm doing - about how I really want to be right with myself and God but at the same time, I'm doing things that I know are not ok and lead me away from the kind of me that I want to be. I've been good before. Good in the sense that I loved who I was because it was the best expression of me I'd ever seen. That's who RedSageWarrior and BrightMedicineHorse, Elder Stahl and Uncle Bobby, and Boy Wonder and Obie-One are. They're versions of me from the past where my actions and desires were in sync. Who I was was who I wanted to be; where I was was exactly where I wanted to be; and what I was doing was exactly what I wanted to be doing. I've never really been this dissonant before, but, I will get back to good. It's just not happening like I want it to, and as is reality, it's hard. I do laugh and have fun and I've got great friends to spend time with. I thank the heavens for that. I just fear to wear out God's patience or not stop this before I do something really harmful. I don't feel that it's good to "take my time," but on that same note, I can't be impatient...change, lasting change, takes time.
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P.P.S. I haven't been kissing a lot of guys...or even certain guys a lot. I just really want to, wish to, and I think about it somtimes too much.

18 comments:

UTMOHO said...

Robert, I know how you feel. Saturday Night after I left Scott's I just wanted to go to the club, but I had to take my friend home. I was planning on going out but he couldn't come he is too young and his mom would have killed me. Today I have tried to be in a good mood but I woke up today just in a mood that my life sucks too.

All I have been able to think about is one day having a guy in my life who I can love and who loves me. But at the same time I want to be back in the church.

I don't feel like I am ever really going back to church. I keep posting stuff about how I want to get married and have kids and be an active LDS member. But I just can't do it. There are so many things that we are all trying to deal with and I am so glad that we are not alone in this we have each other, this whole blogging group. I met a few people there Saturday who just were shocked when I was texting my ex bf. I kinda felt bad that I had an ex bf but when I was with him it was great. I am rambling now so I'll shut up but. I am really glad to meet you. I hope we can hang out. Text me 678-8584

Cadence said...

theres nothing I can say that will change anything, and I really can't sympathize but I can tell you that you have truelly helped me in my life, and I will seriously help you if theres anything...

I've thought about trying to find my "testimony" again and maybe we could work together to find meaning, that includes you too utmoho

it sucks that winter is coming that makes riding harder and that is one of my main forms of survival

if anything I guess remember graduation is just around the corner for me that is the ultimate source of hope...?

Scott said...

I'm starting to see posts like yours on the blogs of those who came to the party and I wonder if having everyone over might have contributed to some of the "my life sucks" that seems to be going around. I hope not.

I'm really at a loss for what to say that might help. I've written and deleted half a dozen different bits of advice now, but they've all sounded patronizing and condescending and I don't want to be that way. I just want to be a friend. I just want you to know that from the little of you I got to know at the party I think you're a great guy, and that I'm here for you if you need anything. You're welcome to email any time. You've got me on Facebook if you want to chat. Everyone I sent directions to our house to for the party has my cell number, so it shouldn't be too hard to track down if you need to talk.

Okay... one piece of advice. Don't worry quite so much about "the consequences of [your] choices". Don't allow yourself to believe that anything you've done has lessened you at all in God's eyes. I don't believe that judgment is quite as black and white as most members think. I don't believe it's a matter of "you committed this sin, so it's this kingdom". I believe it's more a matter of where our hearts are than what are actions are, and I think there's a good chance that some of the gay guys I know (who are with partners, etc.) are going to end up better off than some of the "(self-)righteous" members I know.

Hang in there!

Sarah said...

Reading your blog tonight helped me put together my own blog post. I don't know if it helps or makes things worse. I cried buckets writing it. :-)

Anyway, please read it if you feel so inclined.

God bless you.

Bravone said...

Robert, seeing you at Scott's was a blessing for me. You are every bit the wonderful person I thought you were. I can relate with all three things. I am especially fond of 1 and 2 and daily have to keep myself focused enough to avoid them. To escape the hurt of my failures, I resorted to those as well as pornography. Even worse, I think, is that I quit feeling. I would not let myself feel too deeply about anything. It was a way of insulating myself from the hurt that I caused myself or that others pushed my way.

My dad knows that I have suffered from depression for years. Part is genetic, part situational. He asked me one day how I was coping with all the stress in my life. I told him that I was fine, that I just didn't allow myself to care too deeply about anything. He responded that that probably wasn't a good thing, that we need to care, to feel. It may sound funny, but I had never thought of it that way. It had just become part of who I was.

Not feeling and not believing became comfortable for me. I felt totally comfortable going in bars and clubs. In fact, I met a lot of great people there. I certainly became less judgmental. I was so far away from the spirit that I didn't even mind that I couldn't go to the temple with my son before he left on his mission. I felt no sorrow for sin, no desire for change.

You know my story, I don't mean to repeat it. I shared the following with a dear friend this morning. I hope he doesn't mind me sharing with you. "As you know, I came to the fork in the road myself just months ago. Which direction to go? I wish my decision was based on love of God and my desire to follow him, I wasn't close enough to the spirit to feel that at the time. It came down to what would make me the happiest. I really struggled with what that would be and what I would do once I decided what would make me the happiest. Did I want to be an old man lurking in parks? Did I want to be in even a potentially loving homosexual relationship and not play as active of a role in the life of my children that I could if I was active in the church either because I wasn't worthy or wanted? Did I want them to respect me as well as love me? What about my wife? How did she fit in? I could not deny that I loved her. She has put up with so much from me. She had done nothing wrong, I had. She loves me! What a blessing to know that she truly loves me for all the right reasons.

Ultimately, I came to the clear understanding that for MY HAPPINESS (sounds selfish, but true) both now and in eternity I must stay with my family and staying with them means that I must be active in the church. That is when I started to open my heart to the possibility that the church might be true. I still have a lot of issues with the church, but I have none with the gospel. I believe it and believe it completely. I know of no better vehicle for teaching and helping us implement the gospel in our lives than the church. Someday, my church issues may be resolved, but they might not. I don't care. I focus on what I know to be true and don't let myself get caught up in the "what ifs."

I am happy. Do I still lust for sex with a man.....yes. Will I give in again... NO! Do I still want to drink.....more than ever. Will I....I hope not."

Robert, the real you is still in you. Like me, you will need to slowly open your heart and let Him fill it. I have no doubt that you will become the man you desire to be. Your humility and sincerity will lead you back. You will find you again and love the person you have found. You may not recognize him at first. He will have changed. He will have become softer, more sensitive in spirit, firmer in the faith. You will love him and acknowledge that it was He who made it possible.

I look forward to the day when I can embrace you in the temple. I will try hard to keep myself worthy to see you there. I love you like a brother. You know that.

Bravone

Bror said...

I appreciate your honesty very much in your post. I must say that even though I am married with a loving family, I too, have many days where I feel like you. I have wanted a beer for quite some time. I had my last one in 1986. I have never kissed a guy but I still want to kiss one even after 21 years of marriage. And not just a peck on the cheek. So I guess we are pretty much the same bud. I just want to give you a hug and tell you to hang in there. I look forward to meeting at the next moho party.

Chase said...

I think you might be working towards the wrong goal. Not that I know anything. But if you do want to still marry a girl it is going to take a very odd/special woman so it shouldnt be something you bank on. If you want to stay in the church you should be working towards happiness alone. And if that isnt possible your sin would be one of love.
Robert your a great guy. I am sorry your hurting so much. Maybe you should try living life looking for what you need, instead of living your life with a set plan. One size does not fit all.

Kengo Biddles said...

Robert, I agree that you need to stop, step back and take an assessment.

While the drinking won't necessarily cause you problems at work, the smoking will, if they do random UA as part of your job. That, in itself, should be reason enough to stop, if you want to keep your job.

As for the rest, you're floundering, and need to take a direct course to the place you want to be. (Note, I'm not telling you what that place is.)

We all care for you, Robert, and want you to make good choices.

Andy said...

Hey man...you're a lucky guy. You have a lot of people who care a great deal about you.

"Who am I? I am RedSageWarrior and BrightMedicineHorse, I'm Elder Stahl and Uncle Bobby, I'm Boy Wonder and Obie-One." Don't forget that you're also a son of a Heavenly Father who cares about you deeply. He wants so many things for you including you to be happy. That's his main goal: your happiness. Focus on being happy and RedSageWarrior, Uncle Bobby, Obie-One etc will come naturally as they have in the past.

Love ya man.

hiddeninthelight said...

Hey Man,
I wish I could say I knew what you were going through, but I don't. I don't have anything profound to say or any advice. Maybe you're not looking for that though.
I do know (as you probably do too) that trying to fix everything at once doesn't work. I always feel overwhelmed when I do that. Something else that I know (also, you probably know too) that life is all about balance. I'm always amazed at the ways my life can fall out of balance. If I go to bed too late, wake up too late, not working out, when I don't drink enough water, don't eat enough fruits and veggies (I'm starting to sound like a mom.....I know), then I get really out of balance. It's not even the spiritual things. Those are important, but so are all the other little things.
Anyway, I hope things start turning up for you. I'm here for you man. Let me know what I can do for you!

Z i n j said...

My friend Robert....there's more going on here than.... There are ways to hide pain and ways to numb the pain. The problem...they don't fix the problem. Your academic and life experience tells you all that. Must I repeat it. "Be patient" you say...".trust me"...Iv'e heard that before. My friend Cody did that number. That's a quick way to hell. That reminds me of one of those slick rock slimy waterfall slides. It's hell of a ride and a hell of a crash. You might not get back up. MJ means you have a network...a club...a gang of gadiantons. Get rid of it / them / whatever it is. Now thats the BLUNT approach>>>> Robert, my friend, its OK if you hang one on once in a while. They say Beer is good for you. It has grain! And MJ is not so bad. My buddy smoked it while he played tackle for my High School team. He was Kool. Oh yeah he did cost us the big game but he is so kool. My cousin Mike just drank once in a while. He was Brett Favre's friend and often was allowed to hold the down markers in Packer games. He's dead now but that's another story. Well that approach really worked>>>Robert, my best Bud. I hope to meet you someday. I'm still in deep cover. You know the reasons... so that day may never come because of my place in this world. But if I could could meet you it would be a great privilage. Your one of the great ones. I like what Braveone said about meeting in the temple someday. Don't let Hillary go if that's what you really want. If its out of self doubt of not being able to give her everything...think again man. Your that and alot more. Remember your Uncle Robby, Elder Obie-1, Chief Manygoats and my friend. Stay strong my friend.

artemisandollie said...

I found your blog via Dichotomy via fMh. It totally breaks my heart but I have mad respect for you and how hard you're trying so hard to find integrity. I hope there are gay men in your life, Mo or not, who are out, loving, kind and happy. It is a very real possibility. Like a lot of other people have said, resolve the dissonance and a lot of the urges to act out will dissipate. You can be a gay man of faith, even in the church AND have a meaningful sexual relationship with another man. I think on some level you know this. You are not a bad person. The world just hasn't caught up with you.

-CrazyWomanCreek

Robert said...

P.S. I am so incredibly grateful for the friends I've made and the people I've met through blogging. Wow, we're fortunate to have each other, especially because of the diversity of our experiences and understandings. I'm grateful for that every day. Also, I didn't mean to sound like I'm severely depressed or struggling. I really only get sad when I think about what I'm doing - about how I really want to be right with myself and God but at the same time, I'm doing things that I know are not ok and lead me away from the kind of me that I want to be. I've been good before. Good in the sense that I loved who I was because it was the best expression of me I'd ever seen. That's who RedSageWarrior and BrightMedicineHorse, Elder Stahl and Uncle Bobby, and Boy Wonder and Obie-One are. They're versions of me from the past where my actions and desires were in sync. Who I was was who I wanted to be; where I was was exactly where I wanted to be; and what I was doing was exactly what I wanted to be doing. I've never really been this dissonant before, but, I will get back to good. It's just not happening like I want it to, and as is reality, it's hard. I do laugh and have fun and I've got great friends to spend time with. I thank the heavens for that. I just fear to wear out God's patience or not stop this before I do something really harmful. I don't feel that it's good to "take my time," but on that same note, I can't be impatient...change, lasting change, takes time.

Robert said...

My computer is with SONY as they fix my webcam. So, I'm in prison at work and I finally get to use a keyboard to respond to comments. I love you all so much. Thank you for loving me.

UTMOHO - I really believe that we have no idea what the future holds. I just think that our best option is to choose the best things each day and then, by doing that, we'll be happy...I've just got to start choosing the best things each day... ;) Give things a while (a few months or a few years)and I think you'll be suprised at what you believe you can do. You're awesome man. Thanks for being here.

Cadence - "I've thought about trying to find my "testimony" again and maybe we could work together to find meaning." I think that's a good idea. Call me, I've got an idea. Love ya man. Ride on...on warmer-than-freezing days...

Scott - Thank you again for hosting that gathering. Really, it was about the best thing I've done in a while. It really was a great moral boost, I promise. Thank your wife for me too. She's as incredible as her husband. "I'm really at a loss for what to say that might help." Don't worry man, you've done a ton to help, support, and remind me of things I should never forget. Your comment was very appreciated adn helpful. The last paragraph of your comment was VERY, VERY, VERY kind and helpful and true. Thank you for that, and for many other things. Love you Scott, and your beautiful wife and kids. Thank you.

Sarah - Wow, I feel kinda slow...I just read closely your blog and profile and stuff and just put two and two together and realized that you're Scott's wife. THANK YOU so much for: hosting that gathering; supporting you husband in the trials; having a beautiful home and family; being so kind and active in supporting others; keeping a blog; and just having such a warm, safe, and comforting presence. Really, I was as happy (if not more) to meet you and Bravone's wife as I was to meet anybody else that night. Thank you so much. Honestly and sincerely, our influence, compassion, understanding, patience and love truly go so much farther and touch so many more people than you would be prone to believe. Thank you.

Bravone - I still believe and know the things that I knew a few years ago...I just don't feel it like I once did. But, I do still know that the Creator is there and that He loves us; that as a consequence of what the Savior did, our foul mistakes don't have to damn us to sorrow; and that I don't ever have to be completely alone unless I specifically choose to be. You said, "you will need to slowly open your heart and let Him fill it." Yeah, that's the hardest thing for me to do. I've written about that before. I have the HARDEST time accepting help, even when I need it. Anybody that knows me knows that I don't ask for help and often decline offers from others to help. I need to unlearn that. Thank you for your belief in me to see you in the temple some day. I believe it too, that I'll be there again. Thank you man. And thank you for being here blogging. Love you and tell your wife that I love her too.

Bror - "So I guess we are pretty much the same bud. I just want to give you a hug and tell you to hang in there. I look forward to meeting at the next moho party." First, thank you for calling me "bud." Honestly, that's about the most endearing term and I love it. My dad calls me that all the time. I love that word. Second, I know it's used a lot, but thank you for the hug and for telling me to hang in there. More than specific advice, encouragement and care help so, so much. And lastly, I really hope you can come to the next gathering, whenever it is. Thank you Bror.

Chase - I thought you started using your real name. Oh well, thanks for your post. I'm not sad all that much, just when I sit down and think about what I'm doing and about how I'm not where or who I want to be right now. I love you man, you're such a fun friend. ;) Yeah, one size does not fit all. I don't really bank on anything anymore, I just expect me to start doing the things that make me right with the things that are important and dear to my heart... I've got to be right with myself and God and my sisters and parents. I'll get there again... Love ya man, thanks for caring. Love ya.

Kengo - Fortunately they don't do random tests for contract staff at the prison. That would have definately kept me from smoking pot. But, yeah, I totally agree that I need to get on a path that takes me where I need to be. I'm working on it...I know that sounds lame, but if I try drastic change, it always fails. I've learned that I have to work on slow, deep change. For me, one of the hard things is to have long term effort, focus, and desire. Sometimes, one of those starts to fade and I have to work hard to get it back up. Thanks for being here Kengo, and for the Turkey Day invite. If other plans fall through, I'll call you. Thanks man.

Andy - Yeah, I totally know that being the person I want to be wil only be the consequence/result of the choices I make inside myself all day long. I'm having an incredibly hard time finding my way back to having a degree of spirituality. Wow, I'm a dry desert there. Everything I do just seems to blow away. No matter what's going on, I should have at least that - a spirit in my life and connection with God. But, wow, I don't right now and I feel like a tumble weed in the desert that is my heart. That's one thing that I feel constantly but try not to think about. But, when you're parched, your parched and know it. Love ya man and I look forward to seeing ya tonight. I'll be off around 7 or so. Call me when you get off.

Hiddeninthelight - I really like that name. You said, "I do know (as you probably do too) that trying to fix everything at once doesn't work. I always feel overwhelmed when I do that. Something else that I know (also, you probably know too) that life is all about balance. I'm always amazed at the ways my life can fall out of balance." Well, while I might know those things, it's really helpful when someone says them to me. I'm really glad that you're here with us now. I think that you're going to be one of those bloggers that I really love to read. And don't worry if you start to sound like a mom, I love mine and I love the way she sounds. ;) Thanks man for the encouragement. Love ya and I'm realy glad you're here.

Zinj - Yeah, you were blunt, but what you said is true. I've never changed my relationship with friends because of their lifestyles. I've gotten into some bad things cause of that. I do think that I'm going to hang out with these friends less than I have been...I've already started that. The problem is that I don't need them to go drink or get high. I can do that alone...when I "need" it. I'm done with pot. That's easy to quit...even if I hang out with those friends, it's easy to not smoke pot. And on that note, I guess it's just as easy to not drink... I'm not so much upset at those problems as I am at the loss of spirituality and heart. I feel like I've let the most precious and valuable things inside me dry up and go away. I'm having a hard time getting them back. I need outside help on this one, it's not something I can do on my own. That's what is making it so hard. Thank you Zinj for your comment. I hope we meet someday too. Thanks man.

Artemisandollie - Yeah, I have recently met some gay men that live together and have for years. They're respectable and great members of the community. It was really nice to see that. I think though, that I'd have a harder time being in a gay relationship than a hetero relationship. A gay relationship would be the most dissonant lifestyle that someone could think up for me. There are some things that I've learned and experienced that show me undeniably who I need to be. You're totally right, the dissonance is dangerous. It makes me split and unsure. Thank you for your comment. BTW, Cheyenne is a great city. I love small cities with big rodeos. They're a blast to watch.

Z i n j said...

thanks Robert for the comments...you bring forth a critical topic....spirituality. I too struggle to grasp this. I'm not even sure what it is! I, however, have always struggled with this concept so vital to the way we direct our lives. I too am wind blown and feel the drought. Can someone help me understand what it is? How do I nurture it? How do I test it? It may only be me...but just can't touch it, feel it, wrap around it.

Andy said...

Hey man...thanks for the re-posting...as I was reading your comments, my thoughts turned to this wise person I know. I know this person who makes indian flutes, by hand. I recently had the chance the hear him play one that he had made for some friends and what an amazing sound it was. It was very hard for me to not cry while listening to this friend play that flute, made by scratch, with natural materials. It was a very spiritual experience for me to hear such peaceful sounds coming from that flute as it was played. Maybe you know where to find a flute of this nature? :)

Z i n j said...

Thanks Alan....Are you saying that it is emotion?

Romulus said...

Hey, your blog is interesting, and we should meet some time. Having fun with finals?